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lcummins

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Reply with quote  #1 
I have been researching "Giant Plaks" off and on for a while now. I've traded info with Dave Hornish as well. Here are my results so far, but there are still some unanswered questions I'm hoping some of you guys might be able to answer.

First, Topps tested a thin stock (similar to standard cards) variety with printed 'wavy' edges and no holes, with a brown background, in 1967. They came one to a pack in a plain white envelope with sticker attached, priced at 10 cents. No code on wrapper but the display box (long box) has a code of 1-469-35-01-7. Proof sheets have turned up with both the brown background and no background, but I have seen no cut cards without the brown background, so I think the proof sheet without a background was just that, a proof sheet. Brown background cards can be found with and without a copyright printed on the front. Set total of 50 cards (if the display box can be believed).


07_Test_Copyright_01a.jpg
Thin-stock, with copyright

15_Test_NoCopyright_01a.jpg
Thin-stock without copyright

GiantPlaks_Test_03.png
White paper envelope with sticker attached (price 10¢ EACH)

full.png
Long display box - code 1-469-35-01-7 (price 10¢ EACH)


GiantPlaks_Test_37a.jpg
Uncut proof sheet (cards 1,2,3:6,7,8:11,12,13:16,17,18:21,22,23)

GiantPlaks_Test_29a.jpg
Uncut proof sheet (no background - cards 4,5:9,10:14,15:19,20:24,25)

Notice the two proof sheets contain cards 1 through 25.


The test went well and Topps released the plaks as thick-stock cards with die-cut 'wavy' edges and a punched hole (the 'chad' can be found still in place or missing) in 1968. Again, the cards can be found with or without the copyright printed on front. The first release was a single card in a paper wrapper with crimped ends, for 5 cents for one plak, with a commodity code of 0-411-98-01-8, sold in a rectangular display box with a probable code of 1-411-xx-01-8 (do not have a bottom image).

19_Copyright_02a.png
With copyright on front

19_NoCopyright_02a.png
Without a copyright on front...

    Wrapper_5cent_01a.jpg
Wrapper (proof) with code 0-411-98-01-8 (price 5¢ CONTENTS: 1 PLAK)

GiantPlaks_19.jpg
Folded wrapper with crimped ends... (price 5¢ CONTENTS: 1 PLAK)


GiantPlaks_DisplayBox5cent01b.png
Display box... (price 5¢ EACH) (Todd, you need this image for the database, if you want the original image just let me know.)

Topps either stopped release of the single card packs and switched to 2 card packs or released both at the same time. I believe the single card pack came first, since the stock number for the issue is 411, and the two card pack came later, with a stock number of 416. Either way, the thick-stock variety can also be found in a plastic, heat-sealed wrapper, costing 10 cents for 2 plaks, with commodity code 0-416-67-01-8, sold in a display box with code 1-416-35-01-8. Again, cards can be found with or without the copyright on front.

GiantPlaks_Test_06.png
Plastic wrapper with code 0-416-67-01-8 (price 10¢ CONTENTS: 2 PLAKS)

 GiantPlaks_Test_22.png
Display box with code 1-416-35-01-8 (price 10¢ 2 IN EACH PACK)


Here is a pack (plastic wrapper) showing both cards that were inside - thick-stock with missing copyright.

PlasticWrapperPack_01b.jpg

  PlasticWrapperPack_02b.jpg

  PlasticWrapperPack_03b.jpg



So, does anyone know anything about the copyright issue? Did Topps have different print sheets with and without the copyright lines, that made it from testing all the way to retail?
Also, some reports have the thick-stock without holes... do these exist or have people mistaken the thin-stock variety? Anyone know the set length of the test, thin-stock variety? Is it really 50? I've seen numbers 7, 15, 23, 32 (Topps Vault) and 47 (Topps Vault).


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Lonnie Cummins
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Reply with quote  #2 
Thanks Lonnie.  The '59 set was truly the 2nd set I ever collected and a long time favorite.  I knew these other issues were out there, but IIRC, not a lot was known about them as recently as 15 years ago.  I remember questions regarding the existence of them on the CU board.


Or maybe I'm thinking of something else....[confused]

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lcummins

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Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MorrellMan
Thanks Lonnie.  The '59 set was truly the 2nd set I ever collected and a long time favorite.  I knew these other issues were out there, but IIRC, not a lot was known about them as recently as 15 years ago.  I remember questions regarding the existence of them on the CU board.


Or maybe I'm thinking of something else....[confused]


You are thinking of "Wacky Plaks" issued in 1959, and reissued in 1965 as "Kookie Plaks", but "Giant Plaks" is related as most of the artwork and jokes from "Wacky/Kookie Plaks" were used in the "Giant Plaks" set in 1967 and 1968.

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Lonnie Cummins
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Reply with quote  #4 
Thanks Lonnie - where do the wood plaks figure in?
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lcummins

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Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MorrellMan
Thanks Lonnie - where do the wood plaks figure in?


"Real Wood Plaks" is believed to have been issued in 1962 or 1963, while "Valentine Wood Plaks" is either 1963 or 1964. They have a similar setup, but the artwork seems a bit cruder, while some of the jokes are recycled. I have not studied them enough to be certain if jokes (or artwork) were reused from the "Wacky Plaks" issue. They are also much smaller... only coming in at 1 7/8" x 2 1/2" (1/8" thick). I'll have to get to that! 😉

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Lonnie Cummins
lcummins

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Reply with quote  #6 
Just a quick look at Todd's site and I'm pretty sure the "Real/Valentine Wood Plaks" used mostly different jokes from the other Plaks sets. However, I did catch one that was reused (sort of) in a later set...

"Real Wood Plaks" 1962
155107 (1).jpg 


"Angry Signs/Stickers" 1967
AngrySigns_10_01a.jpg 


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Lonnie Cummins
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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcummins


"Real Wood Plaks" is believed to have been issued in 1962 or 1963, while "Valentine Wood Plaks" is either 1963 or 1964. They have a similar setup, but the artwork seems a bit cruder, while some of the jokes are recycled. I have not studied them enough to be certain if jokes (or artwork) were reused from the "Wacky Plaks" issue. They are also much smaller... only coming in at 1 7/8" x 2 1/2" (1/8" thick). I'll have to get to that! 😉


The Wood Plaks are another area of mixup; possibly two distinct sets were released (one of 44, the other of 33, or some type of mixing and matching occurred).

Those 10 cent plastic looking Giant Plaks wrappers (see Todd's site) remind me of the 1969 Topps Baseball "cello" packs that looked like the wax  but were issued in an experiment by Topps. There too the original Baseball pack was five cents but upped to ten for the test (actually more of a secondary release) with twice the amount of cards to cover the price increase.

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lcummins

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Reply with quote  #8 
I just noticed something pertaining to the copyright/no copyright plaks... it is difficult to be absolutely certain because of different image conditions, especially lighting, but it appears plaks with no copyright have a darker (more reddish) wood-grain effect and plaks with a copyright have a lighter wood-grain effect. You can see it best in this image where all the plaks are under the same lighting conditions... this was from an old auction with several plaks, wrappers and a few unopened packs, but it never stated if the plaks were from these wrappers. The front lighter plak on the left has a copyright and the front darker plak on the right does not.

giant-plaks.jpg 

Also, here are two different "Idea" sheets from Woody Gelman's files... one with a copyright and one without. I don't remember coming across any other issues that got more than one page in his files except for a couple of reissues... I wonder if perhaps that is the origin of the copyright/no copyright variations?

Idea Sheet (No copyright)
IdeaSheet01_01.jpg 

Idea Sheet (Copyright)
IdeaSheet02_01.jpg


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Lonnie Cummins
toppcat

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcummins
I just noticed something pertaining to the copyright/no copyright plaks... it is difficult to be absolutely certain because of different image conditions, especially lighting, but it appears plaks with no copyright have a darker (more reddish) wood-grain effect and plaks with a copyright have a lighter wood-grain effect. You can see it best in this image where all the plaks are under the same lighting conditions... this was from an old auction with several plaks, wrappers and a few unopened packs, but it never stated if the plaks were from these wrappers. The front lighter plak on the left has a copyright and the front darker plak on the right does not.


Possibly just coincidence.  I have two no trademark regular issues and one is a little lighter than the other, essentially to the same degree shown in Woody's files.

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Dave Hornish

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lcummins

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by toppcat


Possibly just coincidence.  I have two no trademark regular issues and one is a little lighter than the other, essentially to the same degree shown in Woody's files.


Well... it was a good guess as far as it went. More research...

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Reply with quote  #11 
The plot thickens.  I got the Giant Plak with the hang hole punched out (wavy edge, trademark line-Item #2, bottom) and it happened to be the same subject as my example without the TM (Item #1, top). As you can see from the scans, the brown border on Item #1 is a consistent brown and matches the brown o my straight edge example (not shown).  But look at the one I just got (Item #2), the brown peters out and the extreme bottom edge and portion of the right edge is washed out where the real brown ends. you can see it a little along the top and left as well but it's more noticeable on the other two edges.

The backs are different shades of cardboard as well (I screwed up the scan but they are the same top-to-bottom) with the lighter cardboard having the washed our brown edges and really Item #2 is darker in the background as well.


giant plaks comp fronts.jpg 

giant plaks comp reverses.jpg


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Dave Hornish

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lcummins

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by toppcat
The plot thickens.  I got the Giant Plak with the hang hole punched out (wavy edge, trademark line-Item #2, bottom) and it happened to be the same subject as my example without the TM (Item #1, top). As you can see from the scans, the brown border on Item #1 is a consistent brown and matches the brown o my straight edge example (not shown).  But look at the one I just got (Item #2), the brown peters out and the extreme bottom edge and portion of the right edge is washed out where the real brown ends. you can see it a little along the top and left as well but it's more noticeable on the other two edges.

The backs are different shades of cardboard as well (I screwed up the scan but they are the same top-to-bottom) with the lighter cardboard having the washed our brown edges and really Item #2 is darker in the background as well.
...


It is obvious the yellow layer is very light as seen in the large text, the dunce cap appearing more blue and the lighter wood grain background, but the brown edges seem to turn to grey. It looks like it might be the actual card stock, underneath the top white layer. I wonder if the cutting process somehow removed some of the top layer of stock? Very curious...

Still no new information about the copyright/indicia issue. I still think there might be something to Woody having two different "Idea" pages, one with and one without the copyright/indicia line. Anybody have any idea how big an uncut sheet (number of cards across and down) these were printed on? The set is 50 and the proof sheets were 15 and 10, so I am fairly confident a print sheet would have had at least 25 cards, but probably bigger.

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Lonnie Cummins
toppcat

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Reply with quote  #13 
REA had a 5x3 proof sheet a while back: https://www.robertedwardauctions.com/auction/2018/spring/2585/1968-topps-giant-plaks-uncut-proof-sheet-vault-coa/

if you extrapolate out to 10 X 5, it's 42" x 47 1/8" essentially, although my thought would be two 25'ers, 21" x 47 1/8" each.

topps giant plaks uncut partial prrof REA.jpg 


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Dave Hornish

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