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wheatiesfanatic

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Reply with quote  #1 
I am looking for information regarding the tobacco brand Fanny Edel Plug Cut. I have 2 store display/signs that measure just under 11 by 9 inches featuring Female Jockeys that were put out by Myers Bros. & Co. from ca. 1880's. I know the Myers Bros. are known for supposedly being the producers of the very first "tobacco card" back in 1873 featuring the Civil War. One just recently sold on eBay a couple of days ago. Anyway, I cannot come up with much on the Fanny Edel Plug Cut brand and was hoping for some help. Strangely, Allen & Ginter put out the "Racing Colors" series featuring female jockeys and both A. & G. and Myers Bros. are both from Richmond, Va. Any connection there? I have pictured below both displays. The backs have a hanging cardboard hinge attached near the top center of the back. Another unusual thing about these is the opening at the very top that looks like some type of handle. Was this another way of hanging these? I saw one other example on Worthpoint from 2013. I found nothing of the Female Jockey in the first picture. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thank you! I apologize for the photos. Not sure where the lines came from as they were not present when I took the pictures.

Monty IMG_3064.jpg  IMG_3038.jpg  IMG_3051.jpg 

sthoemke

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Reply with quote  #2 

I don't know if this helps, but here is some good info on Myers Brothers & Co/Old Dominion Tobacco Works:

https://rvahub.com/2019/09/09/rva-legends-old-dominion-tobacco-works/

wheatiesfanatic

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Reply with quote  #3 
Sthoemke, thank you for the link. I found it to be quite interesting. I would love to locate a Fanny Edel tin. I am assuming Fanny Edel was not a very popular brand since there is so little information on it.

Monty
tim_uk

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Reply with quote  #4 
Seems like a little advertised brand from around 1890-1893. Here's the best newspapers snippets I could find:

fanny edel 2.jpg  fanny edel 1.jpg 


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wheatiesfanatic

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Reply with quote  #5 
Tim, thanks a lot for the research. I always know you will be able to find something. This will help me breakdown the approx. year of issue. Seems the Myers. Bros. were at least around about 20 years as their "Love" tobacco brand was advertised on a trade card from 1873.

Monty
wdmullins

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheatiesfanatic
I know the Myers Bros. are known for supposedly being the producers of the very first "tobacco card" back in 1873 featuring the Civil War. One just recently sold on eBay a couple of days ago. 


I tried to find this sale and couldn't.  Can you provide a link?
wheatiesfanatic

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Reply with quote  #7 
If you go to eBay just type in "love tobacco" under the "completed" items and you will find it on the first page. The seller did not list Myers Bros. in the title.

Monty
Matt_Z

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Reply with quote  #8 
Screenshot 2020-04-18 at 18.55.51.png
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Civil-War-1800-039-s-Richmond-VA-Love-Tobacco-Card-North-amp-South-Soldier-Swap-Coffee-/313040832629?hash=item48e2b00875%3Ag%3AytAAAOSw7Blef8%7E6&nma=true&si=msT47%252F7X1X5tRf7iXmY%252FxNlSeA4%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

  

1880nonsports

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Reply with quote  #9 
OK let's be clear about this.

1) Dave nice guy crazy pricing. He did do a great job fixing a a Tuck's articulated paper doll for me.

2) The card did not SELL for the listed amount. It was a best offer and I have no time or patience to ferret out the price. There is a formula.

3) Maybe it is a rare variant but doubt it (didn't READ the listing or look it up anywhere) - I sold at least 5/6 different of these from Love over the years as people like the civil war themes. I would value it at around 40.00 but hey what do I know......

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Matt_Z

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Reply with quote  #10 
Screenshot 2020-04-18 at 22.21.17.png
Looks to me like it sold for that amount as a 'Buy It Now'. When it's a 'Best offer' it usually shows like another of Dave's sold items shown below it in screenshot above (asking price crossed out with best offer accepted below it). Finding out what the accepted best offer was  is another matter entirely!

1880nonsports

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Reply with quote  #11 
Matt - good sleuthing! Makes sense but still not 100%. I know it was mentioned before but either putting Canada somewhere or deleting something one could see the $. Yesh. Now I have to try and figure it out :-(

If the sale at that price was true (and well it WAS just one person) then I guess the active members of our audience should keep an eye open when they scout the paper and trade card shows in the north east and elsewhere if they will ever have them again....

In all seriousness I don't know everything but I know there are anomalies in collectibles (been on both sides) and perhaps it sold straight up - simple as that. Maybe the buyer had all the known except one. Maybe Dave or eBay trail is inaccurate. Maybe the attribution or (?) struck a nerve. Unsure. I could simply be mistaken about the value but I guess I should have held onto my examples for the "just in case". :-)

Still hard to believe as a BIY or best offer..... I'm going to see if I can tell how long it was listed. Too funny as I have real things I should be doing! First a search here I guess.

forgive the quarantine ramble - not that this night is any different than any other night.


OK. That took about two minutes. I looked - I saw - I gave up. I'm playing some poker while figuring out what to list.... stir crazy but it could be worse as many struggle....

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tim_uk

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Reply with quote  #12 
I've done a bit more digging on the history of Myers Bros & Co.

I have similar doubts to Henry on the Love tobacco trade card - but I think I now have some evidence to show that the Love tobacco card is more likely to be from some time after 1883 - not the very early 1873 date claimed by some.

The article that Steve (sthoemke) has highlighted above is repeated in snippets below, for ease of reference and for recording here, slightly edited to pick out key points (in red).


(Old Dominion Tobacco Works is part of the Atlas RVA! Project)

From: Industries of Richmond. James P. Wood. 1886.

Old Dominion Tobacco Works.—Manufacturers of Plug Tobacco, corner of 19th and Cary streets.

Messrs. Myers Bros. & Co. are the proprietors of the “Old Dominion.” Fred. G. Myers and Jacob Edel, of Richmond, and Sigo and Herman Myers, of Savannah, compose the firm. About four years ago this firm came here from Lynchburg, and built their splendid factory. The building is 170 feet long, with two wings of no by 45 feet, and four stories high, with a basement, which is used for the storage of leaf in hogsheads. The first floor is the prizing and stock room, the second floor the lump makers’ room, the third floor the drying and picking room, and the fourth is the job room.

Enterprise has marked their footsteps since their advent in this city, and success has crowned their every effort.
  • Fortunate, first, in having erected such a handsome and commodious structure, and in the selection of its name.
  • Second. In placing upon the markets, both foreign and domestic, such excellent brands of tobacco, as their specialties: “Fanny Edel,” “L. Rond,” “Epicure,” “Alarm,” “Love” “Old Sledge,” “Saratoga,” “ Old Dominion,” and “Tip Top.”
  • Third. In the selection of the most reliable agents in all the principal cities of the United States, to represent their goods.
  • Fourth. In having first carried off the palm over 27 competitors from various sections of the Union, by being awarded the contract for supplying the United States Government with tobacco for the Navy, Can any other establishment produce such a record? Pluck and unwavering fidelity to business has accomplished this result, right in this city, where there are at least forty factories.
The capacity of this factory is 3,000,000 pounds yearly. Hands employed, between 450 and 500.

They have a large manufactory in Jacksonville, Florida, for making Key West cigars. This is in charge of Mr. Sigo Myers, while the making of the cigars is under the personal supervision of Mr. Gato, a Cuban, who is thoroughly qualified in the business.

In Savannah, Ga., they have a branch house, under the firm name of H. Myers & Bro., where they are jobbers of cigars, tobacco and liquors. This is managed by Mr. Herman Myers, who is President of the Savannah National Bank, a member of the City Council, and one of the founders of the “Daily Times.”

If Richmond had a few more such live men as compose this firm, there would never be any ground for the assertion that is sometimes made in the daily press, that this market is losing prestige in the leaf order line. The advice to short-sighted members of the tobacco trade is, “stick close to your desks, and never go to sea, and you all may be rulers of Uncle Sam’s Navie.” Myers Bros. & Co. occupy the waters now.


Commentary:

Let’s get a couple things straight right now.
  • First of all the man’s name was Frederick S. Myers, not Frederick G. Myers, an aggravating erratum seemingly intended to thwart the future researcher. He died in 1893, not long after Industries of Richmond was published in 1886.
  • Second, Myers Brothers did not merge with Liggett & Myers. That company was created in 1873 when J. E. Liggett and Brother got jiggy with George Smith Myers of Missouri, not Frederick, Herman, and Sigo.
  • Third, despite the fact that the Industries of Richmond advertisement for Old Dominion Tobacco Works states its location as the “Cor. 19th & Cary Sts.“ and depicts a factory building, it is not one that actually stood at that location. Despite the proximity of the Kanawa Canal, no boat has ever sailed down either street. It must be showing the Savanna branch house.
So what happened to the business? Did they get bought out by, or transform into, U.S. Tobacco when Frederick died? There’s no evidence that they were swallowed up by Buck Duke’s ravenous American Tobacco Company, and they go unmentioned in the 1893 and 1903 editions of Richmond, Virginia: The City on the James. Curse the incomplete record!

As for the location itself, the entire south portion of the block between Eighteenth and Nineteenth along Cary was razed and reformed into today’s soulless and drab Canal Walk Lofts in 2013.


a) Two advertising pieces from the article:

myers advert 1.jpg 
b) The Old Dominion Tobacco Works

myers advert 2.jpg 
c) The 'advert' view (c.1893-1896) and the real view of the Old Dominion Works, post ATC use of the building c.1905

myers advert 3.jpg 



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tim_uk

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Reply with quote  #13 
As the author of the above research points out, the picture of the Old Dominion Tobacco Works (in Richmond, VA) can't be accurate, due to the canal in the picture and the successor ATC building on the precise same site looking quite different.

Anyway, that is not the key point. The key point is that Myers Bros & Co came to this Richmond, VA building from Lynchberg "About four years ago". The article is from "Industries of Richmond. James P. Wood. 1886", making the move from Lynchburg around 1882.

Here's another article from 15 October 1885, which provides further evidence for this, below. Some points to note:
- The article confirms the "Fred S Myers" owner, not the "Fred G Myers" mis-print, per the above research.
- And it also states that the Old Dominion Tobacco Works was purchased in 1883, this date tying up closely with the c.1882 date above.
- The clipping below names a variety of brands, including Fanny Edel, Love and Old Sledge. It also covers "L.Road" as a new brand, which therefore means the Old Dominion card above (which includes L.Road in the listed brands) will be from sometime after 1885, the date of the newspaper article below.

myers snippet 1885.jpg 

So, we know that Myers Bros & Co came from Lynchburg to their new Richmond (Old Dominion Tobacco Works building) around 1883. So, why was this? The below snippet (on the left) provides the answer - their Lynchberg building burnt down in March 1883.

And where did the name of the new Richmond building come from? The tobacco in the Lynchburg region was known as Old Dominion (see the second snippet from 3 Sept 1884):

myers snippet 1883.jpg 


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tim_uk

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Reply with quote  #14 
If you look on Todd's site, there is a Love tobacco card there with an interesting back. Here's some composites from various places, below.

Note that the front of the card has a Richmond location, not a Lynchburg location. And the Edel Bros are in Richmond (See second image below). And the reference to A D Barnes on the third image below is the same manager that is mentioned in the newspaper cutting above from 1885 - this last point doesn't prove he wasn't there in 1873, but it seems more likely the card aligns more closely with the 1885 newspaper date for A D Barnes of Boston.

So, all these Love Tobacco cards use Richmond, Va on the front (from c.1883), not the earlier Lynchburg location (pre-1883) for Myers Bros & Co. None of the other Brothers were based in Richmond either (per the article above). So, it seems the Love card is from any date 1883 onwards, in line with other trade cards of this style and lithography. And not from 1873.

And, hopefully nailing this, I can find Edel Bros, in Richmond, from 1885 onwards. And not any earlier. Additional post provided below.

I've also checked:
a) the lithographer address and style of attribution: Calvert Lith. Co, Detroit, Mich - this is consistent with both 1873 or any time in the 1880s, so doesn't provide any evidence one way or the other on the date)
b) I can't find the tobacco brand "American Mechanic", which is shown on the back of the card - its not mentioned in the brand lists above. Finding when that brand was available would pin this down precisely.
c) I can't find A D Barnes in Boston (yet), at either of the Boston addresses given here.

Would love to hear others views (apologies for the pun)….

myers snippet love tobacco.jpg

edel bros 1885.jpg 


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tim_uk

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Reply with quote  #15 
And here's the family tree, below, which shows:

Frederick, Sigo and Herman, the Myers Brothers.

and

Jacob Edel, Frederick's partner in the Old Dominion Tobacco Works, who married Frederick's sister Frieda (Fanny) Myers. Their daughter was born in 1879 and is also known as Fanny. She married Leon Falk, but died relatively young at age 31. The Fanny Edel tobacco brand could therefore be named after Jacob Edel's wife (Fredrick's sister) or his daughter, or in fact, his mother, who was also known as Fanny.

All the data matches up with above, except for Frederick's death which is actually 1912, not 1893 in the article above.

Julius Edel married Delia Myers. And Julius and Jacob are (at least two of) the "Edel Brothers" on the Love trade card, I believe. So the Myers Brothers (Fred, Sigo and Herman) are brothers-in-law to the Edel Brothers (Jacob and Julius).

There's lots of early family history in Lynchburg, but that switches to Richmond in the 1880s.

Myers and Edel family tree.jpg 
Plus the obituaries of the two main protagonists:

Myers and Edel 0bituaries.jpg  


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Interests:
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(ii) And any cards pre-1885, particularly Thos. H. Hall.
wheatiesfanatic

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Reply with quote  #16 
Tim, thanks a lot for the effort you put into digging up info on the Myers Bros. & the Fanny Edel brand. It was very helpful. Some great reading!

Monty
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