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1880nonsports
Reply with quote  #1 
I am taking the liberty of showing 3 of Paul's N114 history of generals cards. 2 with background variations and a third with a color variation. Does anyone have info or pix that show any other variation?

Dan C
Reply with quote  #2 
I have approx 75...wish there was a way of comparing them with others.


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1880nonsports
Reply with quote  #3 
with a single card. I assume yours is the same as one of these three...........
Tom Boblitt
Reply with quote  #4 
is that there are (4) different colors....yellow, green, gray and orange(ish). Then there are (2) different corner graphics for each card. Thus making (8) different versions of each card or 400 total possible cards in the set. But then again, I could be completely wrong.......

Chuck Millburn
Reply with quote  #5 
I've only seen yellow & green backgrounds. Some do come with more than 2 designs; also they may all exist with or without the Honest Long Cut brand name. WOW!!!


3 Grants:








Chuck Millburn
Reply with quote  #6 
Info from WTI (hopefully this can be read - I wrote on the pages):






1880nonsports
Reply with quote  #7 
I'm thinking it seems likely that all variations are possible for a given card or the set of cards. It's likely that not all variations for all the cards produced are available in the marketplace. I see but a handfull offered in most years - and few have even the simple complete set. Production problems or other factors might have prevented certain variations of the cards being circulated. That being said - the scarcity of the cards in the hobby suggest we may never know the answer - finding all the variations of ONE card would yield a circumstantial basis for further persuit.


edited to add the Grant or Lee would be a logical place to begin as they are the most popular in terms of collectibility and recognition........
Dave B
Reply with quote  #8 
This is a possible reprint(?) or proof(?). I know Knapp did proofs for other series, but am clueless on this set. Thin stock.

1880nonsports
Reply with quote  #9 
and upon a quick glance - I'd say some sort of copy. The stock looks clean and fresh but in the bottom corner of the battle scene - the area looks spotted and worn but still fresh. The thin stock thing also possibly a flag. The great thing about much of the chromolithographic images and cards - is the manner the inks were applied. Generally just tilting an item I can tell if it's original to the period. Louping and black lights are also useful as it relates to the paper stock (BL) and louping to determine the manner in which the inks were applied. David Rudd has an EXCELLENT website covering this kind of stuff. I think I supplied it Tom for the index. If you can't find it and want to - just email me............


BTW - I am by no means an expert - just offering an opinion based on but a casual look and a "spidey sense" as Ralph has alluded to in the past.........


No guarantees whether written or implied
Chuck Ross
Reply with quote  #10 
Man, that's one complicated master set. Might be tougher than Indian Gum.
paulstratton
Reply with quote  #11 
Henry, I knew what "wti" meant, I just needed someone to decypher what it was trying to tell me.
paulstratton
Reply with quote  #12 
Nice thread Henry. Since I can't read Sanskrit can someone translate that wti? With and without advertising, 8 different panels, differences in the advertising itself, color variation, wtf is more like it...


Like you said, I guess we'll never know since they are somewhat scarce to begin with.
Dan C
Reply with quote  #13 
I have been reading this N114 thread with interest.


Because image information is the most important ingredient, I grabbed


N114 images at Legendary and REA. I searched Hakes,


but came up empty. I don't know how to search other auction sites.


There is a lot of work involved cropping and resizing the images.


But, with the help of N114 collectors, can come up with a decent


N114 comparison area.


So, if anyone has any N114 images, please post your


name in this thread, so we can have an idea of how comprehensive


it will be. I invite the UK collectors to spread the word for


"N114 foreign aid".


I will post the first "comparison page" APRIL 1st, to eliminate


duplicate effort.


I've asked for help in the past, but this is a different nature.


This is for a visual survey/confirmation.


Also, we have the option of me emailing all raw images


to those that have 20 or more cards, to prevent duplication.


Any comments ? Tom B...Henry M....Roger C....UK guys...image collectors ?


.


.

Bill
Reply with quote  #14 
I looked at all of the pictures in the gallery and found most of them fit known types as listed in the chart Chuck posted above. Several filled in some of the holes in that chart as do some of the pictures posted in this thread. i.e. Beauregard in the gallery is a 6Yb. The chart only lists a 6Ya. The one "new" background is fon the Morgan. It is a 4Yb. The chart only lists 3's and 6's for backgrounds of Morgan. This still fits the pattern of 2 or 3 differnet bckgrounds for each card. It will be interesting to see if any collectors with cards can identify additional backgrounds.


I do have a question for Chuck regarding the 3 Grants shown in this thread. The top one is yellow and the middle one is green. The bottom one does not appear to match the yellow of the top card, but seems to be more of a light orange. Tom mentioned 4 colors including orange(ish), but I only saw green and yellow in the gallery. Is the bottom card orangish or is it yellow?


Bill
Chuck Millburn
Reply with quote  #15 
Here is the text I used on Todd's website; hope this isn't even more confusing!!!!


Each card front shows a Civil War General, an action scene, and a design. The portrait images and action scenes are identical to the N78 booklet fronts and backs respectively. The card back has a narrative (condenced N78 version) with the lithographer's name at the bottom. The set contains many minor variations. Each portrait can be found with a green or yellow background. Eight different designs are known and each can be found with or without the brand name. It appears that each card has at least 2 design variations, but no card has more than 3. These variations are all represented in the pictures that accompany the checklist. The 8 design types are:


1. Red fringed rug effect - rectangular block and lines


2. Binoculars top right, peace scroll base left


3. Long large leaves on 1 strand top right, on 2 strands base left


4. Small leaves with red berries on grey background


5. Oak leaves on yellow background dotted with red


6. Wallpaper design with quarter circle and crosses in grey background


7. Horizontal wallpaper design, strip of oak leaves in center


8. Red framework with green lightning effect.


Summary:


For each of the 8 design types known for a given General, there may be 4 variations:


(1) Yellow background with Honest Long Cut brand name


(2) Yellow background without Honest Long Cut brand name


(3) Green background with Honest Long Cut brand name


(4) Green background without Honest Long Cut brand name


This would allow for at least 440 total variations with many more possible as new design types are identified.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dave B
Reply with quote  #16 
I'll need to locate it to examine but seem to remember the front colored areas having some reflective qualities. Definitely some form of copy or reprint though.
1880nonsports
Reply with quote  #17 
WTI is the world tobacco index........
Chuck Millburn
Reply with quote  #18 
Maybe some pictures will help:


Design types:


1. Red fringed rug effect - rectangular block and lines




2. Binoculars top right, peace scroll base left




3. Long large leaves on 1 strand top right, on 2 strands base left




4. Small leaves with red berries on grey background




5. Oak leaves on yellow background dotted with red




6. Wallpaper design with quarter circle and crosses in grey background




7. Horizontal wallpaper design, strip of oak leaves in center




8. Red framework with green lightning effect.





Variations:


(1) Yellow background with Honest Long Cut brand name




(2) Yellow background without Honest Long Cut brand name




(3) Green background with Honest Long Cut brand name




(4) Green background without Honest Long Cut brand name





Chuck Millburn
Reply with quote  #19 
Bill, I'm afraid I don't have the answer. The 3rd Grant image came from an ebay sale long ago, so the accuracy of the color is ????????.

Dan C
Reply with quote  #20 
my first thoughts were lost..this morning..as the Forum became unavailable.


..couldn't even use my browser to GO BACK one page.


Let me try to remember...


1. the images mentioned above seem to be of green/yellow...I am finding


light blue and possible light white (if there is such a thing). I fear


these images were done years ago on my 10-15 year old scanner (still works)


2. N114 image sources - internet auction sites, THIS thread and the Gallery.


3. I m trying hard to figure a way of displaying what I have, keeping


in mind future adds.


4. Common sense tells me to go slow, and work with approx FIVE general's


images... improve it as advise rolls in...then add the other FORTY-FIVE.


.

Todd C
Reply with quote  #21 
great info !


that would be a tough master set.
Dan C
Reply with quote  #22 
Maximum viewing area will give best results.

http://www1.coe.neu.edu/~dan/N114-all/go1-10.html

http://www1.coe.neu.edu/~dan/N114-all/go11-20.html

http://www1.coe.neu.edu/~dan/N114-all/go21-30.html

http://www1.coe.neu.edu/~dan/N114-all/go31-40.html

http://www1.coe.neu.edu/~dan/N114-all/go41-50.html


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Dan C
Reply with quote  #23 
I have cropped, resized and named 115+ N114 images


and will begin to compare them (this weekend).


It would be easier on me if collectors that will be sending their N114 images


say so now. It would same me double image processing and double coding.


There would be no rush on the images....just let me know so I can


plan accordingly.


.


.
Dan C
Reply with quote  #24 
Only NINE images for the first FIVE generals..


Please....not too much criticism....this is a very hard project for me...

http://www1.coe.neu.edu/~dan/N114-all/go-10.html


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