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tim_uk

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Reply with quote  #1 
Moving on to cigarette boxes, we can piece together some more of the very early history of cigarette cards.

First a fantastic spot by Joe Gonsowski - the early cigarette box history, as told in 1890 (courtesy of the Hathitrust).

There are numerous references in here that we'll touch on in the coming posts. I would encourage anyone interested in the early history of cigarette cards to read it through - it contains some real gems. The article can be read (I think) if you enlarge the screen or click on the article, which should open a larger screen. Alternatively, I've attached a pdf version you can open.

box 1890 history.jpg  

 
Attached Files
pdf box 1890 history.pdf (457.49 KB, 3 views)

tim_uk

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Reply with quote  #2 
Courtesy of David Epps, a Between the Acts packet from the early 1880s, with the slider showing the manufacturer of the boxes being the Whiting Box Co and patent from 29 March 1881. This is the same style as shown in Figure 2 of the "Evolution of the Cigarette Box" article.

box - thom hall - 3 sides.jpg  box - thom hall - inside slider - Fig 2 - patent March 1881.jpg

tim_uk

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Reply with quote  #3 
And another example, a Dog's Head cigarette box - see text on the right - with the same style and patent.

Note the address for the Whiting Box Co of 463 Greenwich Street, which is just a few blocks from Thomas H Hall at 222 Greenwich Street in its earliest days.

box - dogs head.jpg

tim_uk

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Reply with quote  #4 
And an advert by Munson from 1884, showing the marketing picking up. The style shown in the picture was patented by H.S. Munson on 14 October 1884 (also shown below), almost exactly aligned with the advert here from 4 October 1884.

box - munson acme - Oct 1884.jpg 
box - HS munson - patent Oct 1884 - fig 2 tbc.jpg

tim_uk

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Reply with quote  #5 
And the patent from 27 April 1880 showing what I think is the unsuccessful 20 cigarette configuration used for Bravo packaging if we take the "Evolution of the Cigarette Box" article at face value.

Note that this configuration is 6/8/6 = 20 cigarettes, not 7/6/7 as mentioned in the "Evolution of the Cigarette Box" article.

box - HS munson - patent Apr 1880 - bravo - fig 1.jpg 

tim_uk

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Reply with quote  #6 
I've found 7 patents from Munson (so far), six for cigarette boxes, issued as follows:

1880 April 27 - Harvey S Munson - New Haven Connecticut - possibly Bravo packet design
1882 June 27 - Albert L Munson - New York
[1884 July 18  - Albert L Munson - New York - mouthpiece, not cigarette box - per the Tobacco article]
1883 June 26 -
Albert L Munson - New York
1884 Oct 14 Harvey S Munson - New Haven Connecticut - per the advert above, for "Acme" sliding box
1886 Sept 7 -
Harvey S Munson - New Haven Connecticut
1890 Feb 25 - Albert L Munson - New York (witnessed by Charles R. Whiting) - this is Fig 3 in the Tobacco article

Can't yet find the alleged 29 March 1881 patent.

I think this indicates that there were two separate companies, competing in this market - presumably two Munson brothers Albert and Harvey. Harvey's patents were witnessed by an Edward B Munson, so perhaps 3 brothers …. (I'll do the ancestry tree later)

Interestingly there is no sign of the Whiting Box Co in the patents, so far. But I suspect Albert L Munson (of New York) was actually working for Whiting (of New York). Note that his patent of 1890 was witnessed by a Charles R Whiting (which is incorrectly recorded as Charles R Whitney in the patent).

And clearly Harvey Munson of New Haven is the one in the advert above, marketing as Munsons of New Haven (not Whiting Box Co) although they have an office at Broadway (not Greenwich St), New York.

Can anyone shed some light on the Whiting Box Co of New York?
tim_uk

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quick family tree (ancestry.com) showing the three brothers and confirming the profession as 'Paper box shop", as per the 1880 census, when Harvey was just 23 years old. Edwin B Munson, the brother of Albert and Harvey was known as Edward as an adult (matching the patent witness).

Albert L Munson, on the other hand, was 38 years old.

One can therefore guess that Harvey was working for the family firm of Munsons (run by his mother Amelia) and Albert had left for New York and was working for the Whiting Box Co.

Later (see following posts) we find out that Henry T Munson leaves a fortune to his siblings in 1897, allowing his brothers Edward and Harvey to expand the Munson business, to manufacture cigarettes as well as their boxes. 

munson tree.jpg

tim_uk

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Reply with quote  #8 
So, back to the article from 1890. A key section is shown below.

This refers to the Duke mass production experiment for 50,000 Whiting manufactured boxes for his Cameo cigarettes in April 1886. The experiment went well and the various other major names, A&G, Kimball, Goodwin and Kinney, had to follow suit later in 1886 and 1887.

This was the opportunity for the birth of cigarette card inserts on a mass scale. And the rest, as they say, is history...

From Thomas H Hall pioneering work, through to mass-scale production financed by Duke's experiment with Whiting boxes in 1886, we can trace these first key steps to the birth of the hobby as we now know it!

box - 1886 take off with Duke.jpg

visionlures

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Reply with quote  #9 
Splendid research Tim  Remarkable, actually.
Where do you place the Yara Indian Maidens?
The backs of the cards mentioned use as package stiffeners.
tim_uk

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Reply with quote  #10 
OK, fair challenge. Let's take a look.

Firstly lets post the two pictures of really early cards previously posted by Ron (apologies, don't know full name) in the MoL thread. They are both of interest:

(i) The L.C. Frey "Yaya" all-tobacco cigarettes (notice the all-tobacco bit), showing an Indian Maiden and a request to leave the card in place, effectively as a 'stiffener'. If you look closely, there is a registered 10 August 1880 on the cigarettes, which places them slightly later than MoL and a few years behind Hall Between the Acts. But the reference to the card as effectively a stiffener for the cigarette pouch is still interesting. The CRB151 catalogues this card as N736 under L.C. Frey and comments "This is a very significant item" on account of the reference to it being a stiffener. Readers can judge for themselves, in light of the information on early cigarette boxes.

(ii) The M. Hirsch "Queens Cup" all-tobacco cigarettes (notice the all-tobacco bit, you get the idea!), featuring a cigarette box slider "The Climax Slide Box Co" under AG Wilson patent - very exciting! Remember that Thomas Hall photo naming the Whiting Box Co slider as the Climax Cigarette Box patent of 29 March 1881. Looks like Whiting manufactured, but AG Wilson had the patent - which is probably why I couldn't find it previously. I attach a blown up picture too, for ease of reference.

frey yaya.jpg    

queens cup hirsch.jpg 
climax box.jpg   



tim_uk

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Reply with quote  #11 
CRB 151 catalogues Hirsch with some later sets (N500/N501) derived from A&G flag series and some Presidents (N309) which refer to Presidents up to 1893. But also to some photographic cards (N611), which are probably earlier, but not listed, plus some comic Types of People (N511), which can't easily be dated.

First search through patents draws a blank on this celebrated "Climax Slide Cigarette Box". However, AG Wilson has got several paper box patents from the 1880s, just none I can see for cigarette boxes. And not that magical date of 29 March 1881, shown on the three other references above: a) the Hall Between the Acts photo, b) the Dogs Head accompanying text and c) the original Tobacco article from 1890.

From the above patents by the Munson brothers (seemingly working for different companies), we now have 3 sets of people trying to create the best cigarette boxes on the market around 1878-1882.

Here's a few of Wilson's paper box patents 1883-1884, the earliest I can find:

box - wilson patents.jpg

teza

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Reply with quote  #12 
A bit more including Climax.

Climax Box.jpg 

tim_uk

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Reply with quote  #13 
Brilliant Jeff - great work!

This now makes more sense. The Between the Acts box above is from Whiting, post-1895 (Newark location), as is the Dog's Head box, which makes sense, as it was most likely after the Duke 1896 escalation of cigarette box production.

And the Climax sliding box company was taken over / absorbed by Whiting Box Co.

That still leaves a bit of a mystery over who of the 3 inventors (Wilson, Harvey Munson or Albert Munson) developed the very earliest boxes for Thomas Hall.

And we're no closer to dating the Hirsch Queens Cup box, although this must now be pre-August 1885.
tim_uk

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Reply with quote  #14 
B. Pollak N513

If you've been following these posts closely, you'll remember the B. Pollak reference. B. Pollak has 5 known cards (N513), which were issued between early 1878 and late 1879. By my reckoning he was the third manufacturer to include cards in packets, after Thomas H Hall and one other company.

And, interestingly, the printer was a one Joseph Koehler, the same printer who then produced the MoL card - as a clear copy, not just of the Pollak cards, but also of the Thomas Hall cards. The Pollak/Sichel adverts showed pictures that look like very much cigarette boxes, dating back to the predecessor company J.M. Sichel from 1877.

Below I show three pieces of evidence:

(i) The cards themselves, taken from the latest CRB151 update. Note there are only four shown. Tom's picture of the Jefferson MoL pasted in page, shows a fifth different, previously unrecorded, card. And note the Jos. Koehler, Lith at the foot of each card.

(ii) A composite of three adverts for JM Sichel and B Pollak, from September 1877 through to January 1879 showing what look like cigarette boxes.

(iii) The winding-up note in Tobacco Leaf from 17 January 1880, when B Pollok (sic) creditors were listed. Notice that one of the creditors was a Munson & Co, owed $300 - which I can only assume must be for the cigarette boxes developed by Harvey Munson at the tender age of 23 (or at least his family company, perhaps Albert Munson).

pollak3.jpg
    
pollak composite.jpg
 
pollak demise.jpg 



Joe_G.

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Reply with quote  #15 
Hello Tim et al.,

As an FYI, the afore mentioned Tobacco Journal is a treasure trove filled with reference to early cigarette brands, cards, albums, and banners.  I captured some of this in issue #34 of Old Cardboard magazine.

http://www.oldcardboard.com/misc/issue34/issue34.asp

I also have written in more detail in several issues of Brandstand, the Cigarette Pack Collectors Association Newsletter.

https://www.freewebs.com/cigpack/

I find this research by Tim very interesting, will post some follow-ups as time permits (I don't know how Tim can produce so much so quickly [smile])

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Joe Gonsowski
Collecter of several 19th century SF Hess and Consolidated Cigarette sets . . .
& Pre-ATC Merger (1890 & earlier) cigarette packs and redemption coupons from all manufacturers
tim_uk

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Reply with quote  #16 
Hi Joe,

Very interesting links.

You may remember I posted on your net54baseball thread on A&G cards / Old Cardboard article, with a very early A&G "Our Little Beauties" insert reference from 1882:
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=256798

At one point I thought this could be the first paper-wrapped cigarette insert, but I now think that honour goes to the Thomas H Hall "Bravo" brand launched in March 1878.

Its a shame that Old Cardboard is no longer planning to issue annual magazines, I understand.

Interesting there is a US-based cigarette packet club. Here's the equivalent club in the UK:
http://cigarettepacket.com/ which also publishes a nice quarterly magazine. Do you ever co-ordinate with the UK cigarette packet club?

Wouldn't it be great if we could find a library with Tobacco Journal for other years (other than 1890) and have it scanned? We could trace much of the 1880s/1890s with weekly/monthly accuracy.

Tobacco Leaf is a great alternative, but it doesn't seem to carry much in the way of card references and its difficult to search through the postings.

I'm definitely putting the computer down for today ….. this is hard-work (but fun) !

Cheers, Tim
Joe_G.

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Reply with quote  #17 
Regarding the "Evolution of Cigarette Box" article, figure #3, here are a couple examples from my collection.  I do have several Sweet Caporal packs, both pre and post ATC merger and none of them are this style slide (despite what the Evolution of Cigarette Box claims).  It is certainly possible they used it for a short time but I've yet to see one.  Dogs Head cigarettes debuted in June of 1889 and seemed to sell in good volumes until ATC merger.  I've yet to see a Dogs Head box post March 1890.

01  770x683.jpg  02  770x683.jpg  01  770x683.jpg  02  770x683.jpg


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Best Regards,
Joe Gonsowski
Collecter of several 19th century SF Hess and Consolidated Cigarette sets . . .
& Pre-ATC Merger (1890 & earlier) cigarette packs and redemption coupons from all manufacturers
Joe_G.

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Reply with quote  #18 
Allen & Ginter was a heavy user of Munson boxes until the ATC merger.  Here is an example from a Virginia Brights box (Crop of 1885 - Dec. 18 1888 overprint - A&G would dry/cure their tobacco ~3 years).  It is common to find Munson on the slide only but there are a few examples, such as below, in which it also appears on the shell.

Munson & Co. on slide and shell 600 x 400.jpg


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Best Regards,
Joe Gonsowski
Collecter of several 19th century SF Hess and Consolidated Cigarette sets . . .
& Pre-ATC Merger (1890 & earlier) cigarette packs and redemption coupons from all manufacturers
teza

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Reply with quote  #19 
Great stuff!  I once owned that blurry N513 image shown above.

Better scan below.

Jeff

N513 o (2).jpg    N513 r.jpg 





tim_uk

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Reply with quote  #20 
I hope you got a good price Jeff!

There must be a few more of those Pollak cards around. Here's the one from Tom's Jefferson Burdick pasted MoL page from the Met Museum.

pollak - burdick.jpg  pollak - burdick2.jpg 


And I've finally tracked the AG Wilson patent down, from March 29 1881.

box - wilson 1881.jpg

tim_uk

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Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_G.
Allen & Ginter was a heavy user of Munson boxes until the ATC merger.  Here is an example from a Virginia Brights box (Crop of 1885 - Dec. 18 1888 overprint - A&G would dry/cure their tobacco ~3 years).  It is common to find Munson on the slide only but there are a few examples, such as below, in which it also appears on the shell.

Munson & Co. on slide and shell 600 x 400.jpg


Great post Joe - I love the list of Munson patents, which don't seem to tie in with anything I've listed above. I think I'll have to let it go!
tim_uk

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Reply with quote  #22 
Glad to see the Munson company, under Harvey and Edward's leadership, continued on for some time. Here they are in 1897, following a windfall from one of their wealthy brothers, Henry T Munson.

It is noticeable that there is a reference to their "brother and sisters". You'll recall that elder brother Albert Munson left for New York and seemingly joined the rival Whiting Box Co. This ties in with the family tree posted above, showing 4 brothers (matching the ones here Harvey, Edward, Henry T and Albert) and 6 sisters.


box munson 1897.jpg

tim_uk

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Reply with quote  #23 
But by 1900, Albert Munson was having to battle a law suit from the famous Bonsack Machine Company:

box munson 1900.jpg 

tim_uk

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Reply with quote  #24 
Pulling across a great post from Joe's and David's images of cigarette boxes in the Thomas H Hall patent thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_G.
………
David Epps vs My Pack.jpg  
Your pack is Climax Cigarette Box, manufactured by the Whiting Box Co.
My pack is Acme Cigarette Box, manufactured by Munson & Co.

They appear to be the same design but reference different patents etc. ..………


This is great digging on Thomas H Hall boxes.

As you say, the box in the top row is by the Whiting Box Co, which succeeded the Climax Slide Box Co. in 1895 (per Jeff's post above in this thread) and refers to the A G Wilson patent of 29 March 1881 (shown further up in this thread). This box is therefore from sometime 1895 or afterwards.

And the box in the lower row is a box from Munson & Co and refers to the Harvey S. Munson patent from 11 October 1884, posted above in this thread (date on patent is 14 October 1884), along with the advert for the Acme Cigarette Box.

Its anyone's guess which is earlier, both being produced sometime c.1895 onwards!
1880nonsports

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Reply with quote  #25 
TIM! LOVE all of your hard work and investigative skills. I am actually printing out all of your posts so I may study them properly. While I am not as actively involved in the hobby as of late (planning to renew and refresh after I work thru some business details) - this is a very important discussion. I'm attaching a few pack pix of my core focus - Ginter. I still collect and search out historical and manufacturing information as well as examples of everything they sold. These and 10/15 more just sitting on a shelf waiting for further study but I'm always excited for an occasion to show them as they are few and far between. 95% of these found in a single collection had tax dates of 1883...…….

Attached Images
jpeg Scan_20190519 (2).jpg (269.39 KB, 9 views)
jpeg Scan_20190519.jpg (267.65 KB, 9 views)


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