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tim_uk

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Posts: 353
Reply with quote  #1 
I've posted before that the first A&G cards seem to be the N57 sepia series, with newspaper snippets placing them in early 1882, in the early days of the re-launch of Our Little Beauties. The post is here:
https://forum.vintagenonsports.com/post/allen-ginter-first-insert-cards-10150709?pid=1310111225

The first A&G photographic cards could be from 1883, with this newspaper snippet providing the link:

Little Beauties N60 - Oct 1883.jpg   
It seems quite likely this reference is to N60 cards. For example, the title ties in ("Little Beauties") and the N60 photos seems to date from cabinet cards going back pre-1880 in some cases.

A recent eBay listing of 19 N60 type 2 cards has just come and gone. I see that Jeff and Todd have captured the new examples in the non-sport.com database. I was unsuccessful with my bids, but the listing was interesting in that it was described as "from a local estate in as found condition". And of the 19 cards, I think 11 were new examples and only 8 were known examples, by my count. In Todd's database there are around 130 cards, which suggests that the full list of cards could be as many as 300, if this estate find is representative.

I'm not aware of anyone trying to estimate the final/total number of these cards, so I thought this would be an interesting fact to record. If someone has tried to estimate the number of cards, it would be a good follow-up post.

This estimate is a simple gross-up calculation (130 * 19/8 = 309). There are various ways this could be inaccurate, the main ones I can think of being:
a) this sample is not representative
b) the issue of cards was not uniform, with more popular actresses being printed in more numbers
c) the cards kept over the early years of collecting could be biased towards the more popular actresses or the more attractive portraits
But, as a first order estimate, I think its reasonable.

Which then raises the question, why have not more cards been identified so far?

I've some similar info on N60 type 1 cards that I'll post once I've had a chance to pull it together properly.

I've pasted the 19 cards below, and listed them in the same order:

New 11 cards:
1. Carrie Hopgood
2. Mabel Vaughn
3. Lilian Spencer
4. Mrs Winfield S Hancock
5. Lottie Elliott
6. Elsie Gunty ?
7. Minnie Palmer
8. Miss Garmann ?
9. Annie Deacon (seated)
10. Annie Deacon
11. Ella Wesner

N60 - Jan 2020 - new cards.jpg 

Existing 8 cards:
A. Mattie Vickers
B. Selina Delaro
C. Miss Moulton
D. Maggie Moore
E. Emily Rigl
F. M'lle La Chacuti
G. Theresa Carrena
H. Julia Cordon

N60 - Jan 2020 - existing cards.jpg


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Interests:
(i) Old card hobby history, particularly vintage publications - magazines, price lists, books, hobby correspondence.
(ii) And any cards pre-1885, particularly Thos. H. Hall.
tim_uk

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Posts: 353
Reply with quote  #2 
OK, so some further corroborating evidence. Marty K reached out to me on PM and (with his permission) he has around 80 different type 2 cards, of which a skim through Todd's site shows around 30 are not listed.

So there is definitely a large number of unlisted N60 type 2 cards out there. My best guess remains at c.300 for the type 2 cards, despite Marty's indicative numbers perhaps indicating the number might be more like c.240. I suspect there is some bias in the general collection held today, towards well know actresses or uneven print runs. And some of Marty's cards may have been spotted on eBay or previously reported into the WTI / Todd's site, further biasing his sample.

The interesting thing about the 19 cards (noted above) is that they are 'new to the market', an estate find, so haven't been held in collections and been reported in the 'known card' list, until now.

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Interests:
(i) Old card hobby history, particularly vintage publications - magazines, price lists, books, hobby correspondence.
(ii) And any cards pre-1885, particularly Thos. H. Hall.
tim_uk

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Posts: 353
Reply with quote  #3 
A couple more unrecorded N60 type 2 (Miss Hutchins and Margaret Cone) just sold on eBay. Here they are for Todd, Dan, Chris (NSB) to record.

N60 x 2 unrecorded.jpg 
I see too that Marty's unrecorded N60s have made their way onto Todd's site. Some really interesting observations (at least to me) upon seeing these:

(i) Two previously unrecorded N60 type 2 of Mrs Chanfrau have appeared (one is actually in the illegible list, that you can now remove Todd). These are the only card examples of Mrs Chanfrau, apart for the two original cards from Thomas H Hall, that I'm aware of. Anyone else seen another Henrietta Chanfrau card?

Some family history from my post last year:

Henrietta Chanfrau (nee Henrietta Baker) was born 28 April 1838 and married to Francis S Chanfrau c. 23 July 1858. Francis' older brother, Peter Chanfrau married and had a large family. His eldest child was Marie Louise Chanfrau, who later married Thomas H. Hall (the son of Joseph Hall), in 1863. Henrietta and Francis Chanfrau were, therefore, the aunt and uncle of Marie Louise Hall, Thomas Hall's wife. By the time the Between the Acts brand was launched, Henrietta had already been a headlining star for many years. But she was the first in line for a portrait in Thomas H Hall's cards - with here younger and older portraits in the first batch of cards around November 1877 - March 1878.

Plus the related cards:

Mrs Chanfrau - N60 type 2 x 2.jpg  Mrs Chanfrau - N342 x 3.jpg 

Plus a photo of Henrietta Chanfrau (reproduction) on eBay:

Mrs Chanfrau - photo c 1870.jpg 


(ii) The first bicyclist in the N60 type 1 series?

May Villian - N60 type 1 - 1884.jpg 

(iii) And in N60 type 1, Marty has added a whopping 8 more to the small sub-series of historic figures, pulled out here, alongside the 4 or 5 that were already recorded (I've left the Hanlan oarsman in, but arguably should be excluded).

N60 type 1 - historic figures.jpg 



__________________
Interests:
(i) Old card hobby history, particularly vintage publications - magazines, price lists, books, hobby correspondence.
(ii) And any cards pre-1885, particularly Thos. H. Hall.
MorrellMan

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Posts: 246
Reply with quote  #4 
Thank you for these posts Tim.  Fascinating stuff.
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